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	<title>Comments on: Quote of the Day</title>
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	<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/</link>
	<description>Firearms Policy and Politics in Pennsylvania</description>
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		<title>By: ParatrooperJJ</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52679</link>
		<dc:creator>ParatrooperJJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52679</guid>
		<description>RAH - Again she is employed by the Army.  She is a DOA police officer.  A federal employee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAH &#8211; Again she is employed by the Army.  She is a DOA police officer.  A federal employee.</p>
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		<title>By: RAH</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52669</link>
		<dc:creator>RAH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52669</guid>
		<description>The news stories did not clarify that  she was employed by  Department of the Army. They said she was a traffic cop and was driving  by  so  she was off duty and heard the report and rant to the scene and caught  sight of the guy coming out and around the corner.

 Perhaps the local police have contracted with  the Army but  who  signs her paycheck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The news stories did not clarify that  she was employed by  Department of the Army. They said she was a traffic cop and was driving  by  so  she was off duty and heard the report and rant to the scene and caught  sight of the guy coming out and around the corner.</p>
<p> Perhaps the local police have contracted with  the Army but  who  signs her paycheck?</p>
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		<title>By: ParatrooperJJ</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52666</link>
		<dc:creator>ParatrooperJJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>RAH - Most military bases have transitioned to civilian police from MPs.  She was a Department of the Army civilian police officer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAH &#8211; Most military bases have transitioned to civilian police from MPs.  She was a Department of the Army civilian police officer.</p>
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		<title>By: RAH</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52663</link>
		<dc:creator>RAH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52663</guid>
		<description>It is not common today but  officers have been fragged before by troops, mutinies used to be a big fear. So a lot of traditions of keeping troops unarmed on US bases is based on tradition.

 What is ironic that a traffic cop who was a expert shooter happened to be there and she took the shooter down. All those trained troops and it was a cop that that  did it.

  I guess the MP&#039;s were farther away.

 To  give a  story,my father used to  work on a base in a civilian capacity. One evening  a shot came near  his office. It was not a murder attempt  but a young  marine being  stupid.

 This stuff  happens. My  father never blamed the marine and fears that it was targeted  were unfounded.

 I accept the risk that people owning  and carrying  guns may  act stupidly  and  I could get  killed. But  with good training that  risk is managable.

I willingly   assume risks  every  day. I  drive and that has  a higher risk of  injury than  being  shot  by a criminal or reckless shooting.

 I have had gunfire come my way   in the woods. There are protocals when coming  upon  shooters in the woods to avoid accidents.

It  is not that bad, most  people will stop once you let  them  know who are in the target range. Only  once did the kids not stop  and then  I  charged them and they ran. We never saw each other but did hear each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not common today but  officers have been fragged before by troops, mutinies used to be a big fear. So a lot of traditions of keeping troops unarmed on US bases is based on tradition.</p>
<p> What is ironic that a traffic cop who was a expert shooter happened to be there and she took the shooter down. All those trained troops and it was a cop that that  did it.</p>
<p>  I guess the MP&#8217;s were farther away.</p>
<p> To  give a  story,my father used to  work on a base in a civilian capacity. One evening  a shot came near  his office. It was not a murder attempt  but a young  marine being  stupid.</p>
<p> This stuff  happens. My  father never blamed the marine and fears that it was targeted  were unfounded.</p>
<p> I accept the risk that people owning  and carrying  guns may  act stupidly  and  I could get  killed. But  with good training that  risk is managable.</p>
<p>I willingly   assume risks  every  day. I  drive and that has  a higher risk of  injury than  being  shot  by a criminal or reckless shooting.</p>
<p> I have had gunfire come my way   in the woods. There are protocals when coming  upon  shooters in the woods to avoid accidents.</p>
<p>It  is not that bad, most  people will stop once you let  them  know who are in the target range. Only  once did the kids not stop  and then  I  charged them and they ran. We never saw each other but did hear each other.</p>
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		<title>By: The Packetman</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52658</link>
		<dc:creator>The Packetman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52658</guid>
		<description>I would also point out the military firearms training and defensive firearms training tend to be at odds with each other.

And as someone in another thread I read (maybe RAH?), military personnel blow off steam by getting into trouble; made much worse if everyone has a personal firearm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would also point out the military firearms training and defensive firearms training tend to be at odds with each other.</p>
<p>And as someone in another thread I read (maybe RAH?), military personnel blow off steam by getting into trouble; made much worse if everyone has a personal firearm.</p>
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		<title>By: ParatrooperJJ</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52654</link>
		<dc:creator>ParatrooperJJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52654</guid>
		<description>Actually under Army regulations, any commander in the grade of O-4 or above can give permission for any soldier under their command to carry a concealed weapon, including commercial flights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually under Army regulations, any commander in the grade of O-4 or above can give permission for any soldier under their command to carry a concealed weapon, including commercial flights.</p>
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		<title>By: Boat Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52651</link>
		<dc:creator>Boat Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52651</guid>
		<description>Actually with a bit of pro-active lobbying and training that far exceeded Fleet norms (our guys shot about 400 rounds of .45 each, due to some &quot;creative accounting&quot; on my part) our Skipper actually let the security force on our &quot;nuclear capable&quot; ship ( we could &quot;neither confirm nor deny&quot;) stand watch armed - at least in condition 3 rather than the empty magazine wells I encountered upon reporting aboard.
Ain&#039;t about sailors, Marines et al, it&#039;s about training and LEADERSHIP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually with a bit of pro-active lobbying and training that far exceeded Fleet norms (our guys shot about 400 rounds of .45 each, due to some &#8220;creative accounting&#8221; on my part) our Skipper actually let the security force on our &#8220;nuclear capable&#8221; ship ( we could &#8220;neither confirm nor deny&#8221;) stand watch armed &#8211; at least in condition 3 rather than the empty magazine wells I encountered upon reporting aboard.<br />
Ain&#8217;t about sailors, Marines et al, it&#8217;s about training and LEADERSHIP.</p>
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		<title>By: Laughingdog</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52650</link>
		<dc:creator>Laughingdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52650</guid>
		<description>&quot;The military actually has a highly defective attitude when it comes to gun handling.&quot;

I was in the Navy for four years.  It used to infuriate me to no end that, when standing Petty Officer of the Watch onboard, we were not allowed to load the 1911 we carried.

Now, after learning proper gun handling, I realize that not letting your average sailor carry a loaded gun is probably a good thing, because firearms training in the Navy is pathetic.  

Seeing the way that the shipboard security handles firearms makes me really miss the days when Marines provided the security on nuclear ships.  I&#039;ve lost track of the number of times I&#039;ve had to describe to some of those sailors what dark place I would put their M4 if they swept me with it again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The military actually has a highly defective attitude when it comes to gun handling.&#8221;</p>
<p>I was in the Navy for four years.  It used to infuriate me to no end that, when standing Petty Officer of the Watch onboard, we were not allowed to load the 1911 we carried.</p>
<p>Now, after learning proper gun handling, I realize that not letting your average sailor carry a loaded gun is probably a good thing, because firearms training in the Navy is pathetic.  </p>
<p>Seeing the way that the shipboard security handles firearms makes me really miss the days when Marines provided the security on nuclear ships.  I&#8217;ve lost track of the number of times I&#8217;ve had to describe to some of those sailors what dark place I would put their M4 if they swept me with it again.</p>
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		<title>By: Boat Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52644</link>
		<dc:creator>Boat Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52644</guid>
		<description>Lawsuit ain&#039;t gonna happen, however much the idiotic policies of DOD and Fed writ large contribute to these horrible events.
Those of us who work or live on Federal property effectively surrender our right to protect ourselves everytime we go through the gate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawsuit ain&#8217;t gonna happen, however much the idiotic policies of DOD and Fed writ large contribute to these horrible events.<br />
Those of us who work or live on Federal property effectively surrender our right to protect ourselves everytime we go through the gate.</p>
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		<title>By: Weer'd Beard</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52640</link>
		<dc:creator>Weer'd Beard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52640</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering if there would be potential for a lawsuit.   The Army willfully disarmed a population of proficient, willing, and able people, and then did not supply adequate protection for those people.

I certainly think if somebody wants to create a gun-free zone they should be held responsible for the safety of all within that zone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering if there would be potential for a lawsuit.   The Army willfully disarmed a population of proficient, willing, and able people, and then did not supply adequate protection for those people.</p>
<p>I certainly think if somebody wants to create a gun-free zone they should be held responsible for the safety of all within that zone.</p>
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		<title>By: aeronathan</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52637</link>
		<dc:creator>aeronathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52637</guid>
		<description>DoD policy on weapons on base, scares the crap outta me since I work on one.  Every time we get security threat assessments, #1 or #2 is an active shooter and yet I&#039;m not allowed to carry on base.  

Our mighty base security services, can&#039;t prevent someone who wants to go on a rampage from getting their weapon on base, but I&#039;m legally prohibited from protecting myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DoD policy on weapons on base, scares the crap outta me since I work on one.  Every time we get security threat assessments, #1 or #2 is an active shooter and yet I&#8217;m not allowed to carry on base.  </p>
<p>Our mighty base security services, can&#8217;t prevent someone who wants to go on a rampage from getting their weapon on base, but I&#8217;m legally prohibited from protecting myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52636</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52636</guid>
		<description>Bill:

Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, I don&#039;t think that policy is likely to change under this President.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill:</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t think that policy is likely to change under this President.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52635</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52635</guid>
		<description>Generals are not afraid of guns, they are afraid of losing control of their soldiers.  Dept. of Defense policy is that no one other than a police officer (Civilian or Military) can carry a fire arm on a military installation except in the course of military training.  Neither civilians or military personnel are allowed to carry firearms on a military installation for their personal protection.  They can hunt, they can target shoot, but they can not protect themselves.  LTG Cone&#039;s hands are tied in this regard.  He would need to get approval from Gates or even the President to allow soldiers and civilians to carry weapons on Ft Hood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generals are not afraid of guns, they are afraid of losing control of their soldiers.  Dept. of Defense policy is that no one other than a police officer (Civilian or Military) can carry a fire arm on a military installation except in the course of military training.  Neither civilians or military personnel are allowed to carry firearms on a military installation for their personal protection.  They can hunt, they can target shoot, but they can not protect themselves.  LTG Cone&#8217;s hands are tied in this regard.  He would need to get approval from Gates or even the President to allow soldiers and civilians to carry weapons on Ft Hood.</p>
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		<title>By: Thirdpower</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52634</link>
		<dc:creator>Thirdpower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52634</guid>
		<description>Criminals around military bases focus on the servicemembers because they know that they&#039;ll be unarmed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Criminals around military bases focus on the servicemembers because they know that they&#8217;ll be unarmed.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike w.</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52631</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike w.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52631</guid>
		<description>The military isn&#039;t immune to bureacratic idiocy and failure.

I think many non-gunnies equate military with &quot;heavily armed&quot; and assume that soldiers on military bases are armed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The military isn&#8217;t immune to bureacratic idiocy and failure.</p>
<p>I think many non-gunnies equate military with &#8220;heavily armed&#8221; and assume that soldiers on military bases are armed.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52628</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52628</guid>
		<description>I work at a military training command.
Last year, a student was found with an assembled gun and a list.  Yes, one of those lists.  Thank God he was found out in an inspection before he went nuts.
Many of the instructors would like to carry guns.  Since we cannot, some carry knives.  
I feel utterly unsafe in this gun free zone.  :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work at a military training command.<br />
Last year, a student was found with an assembled gun and a list.  Yes, one of those lists.  Thank God he was found out in an inspection before he went nuts.<br />
Many of the instructors would like to carry guns.  Since we cannot, some carry knives.<br />
I feel utterly unsafe in this gun free zone.  :-(</p>
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		<title>By: Rustmeister</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/11/06/quote-of-the-day-127/#comment-52627</link>
		<dc:creator>Rustmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=14084#comment-52627</guid>
		<description>Sad, but true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad, but true.</p>
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