Second Amendment Blog
How to Lose Friends and Influence People
Posted by: Sebastian on 
Oct 10th, 2008 | 
Filed under: Carrying / Self-Defense
Influence people against you, that is. This shining example of assholery represents the sad state that the Pennsylvania open carry movement has fallen into:
I am so disgusted with gun-stupid people like Melodee Reeves and the likes that I could throw up!
This is something best left to be said on a pro-gun forum. Not out in public as a Letter to the Editor. You’ll never reach someone, or influence others by calling people “stupid.”
Not only did all the anti-gun letters published in this forum infuriate me
That’s great, but have you really spent so much time in the echo chambers on forums that you’re unaware that you’re dealing with a news outlet that publishes Letters to the Editor online? I can promise you they published yours with glee. Nothing helps the media paint gun owners as fools as gun owners themselves, more often than I think most of us would like!
Reeves: When you see me or Meleanie carrying open, you can breathe a sigh of relief that we are watching out for your safety as well as our own. Shame on you! Go take a firearms-safety course and learn to shoot. I dare you because I know you’ll like it!
Even if she does like it, I doubt she’s going to want to associate with a group of people who are going around suggesting that anyone who doesn’t like the idea of open carry is an idiot. Carrying a firearm for self-protection is not for everyone.
This movement has drifted far from what it was originally starting out as.
October 10th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Could it be that the letter writers are fed up and venting because years of making nice to the anti-gunners hasn’t budged them one iota from their agenda? That making nice still leaves the unwashed in fear of us, mostly because they’re manipulated by those with a bullhorn and an agenda? Could it be that when they do carry openly, the cops, who should know better, still come and harass them illegally?
Those with the agenda call us dangerous redneck fools whether we’re respectful in our letters, or whether we call them the idiots they are. Perhaps if we were really as dangerous as they say we are, they’d leave us alone for real.
October 10th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I paraphrase - “It’s better to keep quiet and be thought of as a dangerous redneck fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
There are ways of voicing displeasure and calling out those who you disagree with, but Tim from Jonestown (Jonestown?) isn’t doing it right.
October 10th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Boy, way to play right into the stereotype of gun owners being angry, unhinged, and potentially dangerous.
Far too many people already see those who OC with prejudice, or at least trepidation, even when OC’ers are calm, courteous and tolerant. The best way to cause a backlash against OC is to antagonize and generally scare the piss out of the non-gun owning public.
This guy needs to learn what tact is all about, and how to conduct onesself when talking with the media.
October 10th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
my comment posted on the site:
Tim, thank you and congratulations on voicing the opinion of many gun owners. For years we have played the role of battered wife, always coming back to the table with the anti-gun crowd asking what we did wrong THIS time.
The criminals pay no attention to the laws, and the “battered wife” responsible Americans pay the price through further restrictions and laws that will only be ignored. When they stand up and exercise their rights legally they are ridiculed by a large portion of the society that believes they have no duty to themselves or others. Selfish little people who place no value on the lives of others, demonstrated by their willingness to put officers’ lives at risk, repeated passing of laws that do not deter criminals, lax sentencing because the criminal had/was (insert excuse after excuse here).
They are the true threats to society, parasites feasting off the work of others.
The people who have irrational fear of the very object that won our freedom, secured the recognition of preexisting rights all of us have as humans, freed slaves, put an end to genocide, prevent rape…the list could go on. Those things were not done by a select few people that we hired to perform those duties, they were done by “ordinary” Americans who had a dream for a better world and a brighter future.
Tim, the fact that you have the courage to enter the lions den and speak you mind shows that you are one of those “ordinary” Americans that have made extraordinary changes possible.
October 10th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
“A Open Call . . . “?
I was raised by grammar snobs, and tend myself to take the grammar snobbery too far, but even though I’m less inclined than some to worry about people who make gun owners look like extremist assholes, I do get pissed off when the gun-owners-as-barely-literate-bumpkins stereotype is perpetuated.
October 10th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
When it comes to media, politics, and persuasion; the image that is presented more often than not ends up becoming the reality in the long run. The Open Carry movement is in a precarious position especially when it comes to gun rights because it is a pronounced and explicit display of something which still makes the public uneasy. Gun owners (open carriers especially) need to understand this. Rights are rights, but if they are mishandled or dealt with with in a manner that is less than professional, the public will turn against us.
Firearms to us are general tools of self-defense. We know how to use them safely and responsibly, but the general public that is ignorant of them do not view them this way. They understand the right to have a handgun for self-defense, and are generally sympathetic, but the open carry movement will not illicit that same reaction. Open carry by the general public is seen as excessive and unnecessary; it will remain that way until we as responsible gun owners do our part to show the general public that responsible law-abiding citizens present a clear and present benefit to the general good. I open carry, I do so often, but when I do so I carry myself with due caution. I know that my behavior and manner will influence all gun owners. All of us that open carry need to understand this and do our best not to do damage to the rights that we have.
October 10th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Crotalus,
You have to stop thinking of the electorate as consisting only of people who are completely on board with the gun rights thing and people who shit their pants upon seeing a firearm. There’s a large number of people in between those two extremes. OC is one of those issues where you’re surfing right on the edge of pushing the public’s comfort levels. For many people, even many people who own and are comfortable with guns, it’s over the top, so to speak. Because Open Carry is attempting to get people used to the idea that normal people carry guns, open carriers have an enhanced responsibility to appear normal. If they look like angry bastards trying to make a point, their movement becomes about antagonism rather than education, and it fails to serve its purpose.
October 10th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Kurt - I have had a few letters published by newspapers. Without exception, the titles have been assigned by the newspaper, NOT the author of the piece (me).
YMMV.
October 10th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Hmm–come to think of it, that has been my experience, as well–I’d forgotten.
I suppose I need to withdraw–with apologies–my reference to “barely literate bumpkins.”
Thanks for the correction.
October 10th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
“This movement has drifted far from what it was originally starting out as.”
So a single letter to the editor now makes this man a poster child for “the movement”?! I’ll grant that his words were not as eloquent and politically correct as they could have been, but I’ll give him credit for doing what many won’t take the time to do…..SOMETHING.
October 10th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Greg,
No, it’s not just that. It’s the more frequent press coverage of people who could have easily avoided being a media spectacle. Sometimes that’s going to happen, I recognize that. But the guy who got harassed at the Obama rally? Showing up close to a presidential candidate with a gun? That was guaranteed to bring trouble, and cameras. The guy might be in the legal right, but for purposes of desensitizing the public and getting them to accept people who carry guns, it’s not serving it. I’m a lot more sympathetic to folks who are going about their business, and trouble finds them. What happened to you being a prime example. I just worry a lot of the folks getting into this now are seeking out attention, which I think is the wrong strategy.
October 11th, 2008 at 12:19 am
30 years of concealed carry, with and without official permission, never drawn, but “showed” twice. No way to discount the power of the element of surprise.
Effective self defense is much more important than political statements.
Open carry advocates, many new to gunslinging, don’t see wisdom in my opinions.
October 11th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Sebastian,
I understand and respect that we will ultimately disagree on some aspects of this issue, but lately the buzzwords are “a growing trend” of people making bad decisions. I’ll grant you that John Noble’s situation could go on that list (and will explain below why I think it may not belong there) but where are the rest of the incidents that indicate a “trend”? If my local newspaper calls to inquire about my carry-while-voting choice this year, should I not OC to avoid the ‘media spectacle’? What message would that send - after standing my ground the first time and subsequently prevailing in court - that I’m ready to give up the position that I previously fought to earn?
Back to Mr. Noble’s situation.
1. Mr. Noble was in his hometown were he OCs regularly.
2. Trooper Schexnaildre stated that Mr. Noble was within view of no less than a dozen LEOs, yet none approached him until a bystander expressed “concern”.
3. Trooper Schexnaildre stated in court that Mr. Noble was wearing a “quick-draw” holster, yet the arresting officers were unable to remove his firearm from the holster and had to be instructed as to how to accomplish this.
4. The officers who informed Mr. Noble that he was under arrest, and placed him in handcuffs don’t even have arrest powers under PA law.
There are numerous other examples clearly indicating that Trooper Schexnaildre is highly incompetent and best, and perjurous (on multiple counts) at worst. Since I know discussions surround this case are being monitored, I won’t spell out more publicly - but they do exist.
You and I have both been “close to a presidential candidate with a gun”. We remained outside the SS security perimeter, and had no issues - because we were within the law. The SS have confirmed that Mr. Noble did not enter the “event area” and never attempted to. Does the legality or permitted proximity change if the candidate is not in the same party that we are? How about time frame? Mr. Noble was taken into custody at least 90 minutes before the rally was scheduled to begin.
I won’t say that I would have done the same thing he did. But I can’t say I would immediately rule it out, either.
October 11th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I like the battered wife comparison, instead of hoping he won’t hit us anymore if we’re ‘nicer,’ we should be getting the kitchen knife ready to chop off some balls
October 13th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I see your point, Sebastian, and stand corrected. It’s just that the media has made up their collective mind to paint us as extremely dangerous. The media are the antagonistic ones. They refuse to see our side because they have bought into the agenda, and they are impervious to the truth. But when we finally call them on it, WE’RE the one who are cantankerous, callous to the feelings of others, and whatever else they choose to call us. But it’s good to realize that there ARE peopleout there who are neutral on the issue, who we don’t want to antagonize.
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