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	<title>Comments on: Latest Hysterics</title>
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	<description>Firearms Policy and Politics in Pennsylvania</description>
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		<title>By: JJR</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/09/08/latest-hysterics/#comment-29546</link>
		<dc:creator>JJR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Carl,
Thanks for posting that!  I&#039;m trying to get a hold of Don Kates&#039; original book via Inter-library Loan, which he edited back in 1978 called _Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out_, i.e. speak out against restrictions.  The forward was written by Frank Church (of the Church Commission in Congress in the late 1970s that took the CIA to task).  I agree, Kates is very persuasive, and the book he wrote with Kleck, ARMED, very much influenced me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,<br />
Thanks for posting that!  I&#8217;m trying to get a hold of Don Kates&#8217; original book via Inter-library Loan, which he edited back in 1978 called _Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out_, i.e. speak out against restrictions.  The forward was written by Frank Church (of the Church Commission in Congress in the late 1970s that took the CIA to task).  I agree, Kates is very persuasive, and the book he wrote with Kleck, ARMED, very much influenced me.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt "45superman" Hofmann</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/09/08/latest-hysterics/#comment-29538</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "45superman" Hofmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=5111#comment-29538</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; . . . .50 caliber sniper rifles accurate up to more than a mile and effective up to four miles . . . &lt;/i&gt;

Um--how can a rifle be &quot;effective&quot; at a range quadruple that at which it is accurate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> . . . .50 caliber sniper rifles accurate up to more than a mile and effective up to four miles . . . </i></p>
<p>Um&#8211;how can a rifle be &#8220;effective&#8221; at a range quadruple that at which it is accurate?</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle &#187; It&#8217;d be a full time job</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/09/08/latest-hysterics/#comment-29524</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle &#187; It&#8217;d be a full time job</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=5111#comment-29524</guid>
		<description>[...] And: In short, they are freaking out because the laws in Washington D.C. will be substantially [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And: In short, they are freaking out because the laws in Washington D.C. will be substantially [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carl in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/09/08/latest-hysterics/#comment-29520</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=5111#comment-29520</guid>
		<description>Sebastian says:  &quot;...most sensible Democrats are now aware that this is a losing issue for them.&quot;

I agree.  Yet the few sensible ones that aren&#039;t aware, and the senseless ones that have no hope of understanding the dynamic, will continue to push hard on gun control, using overblown and hysterical rhetoric like we see from Hamm.  And for the most part, they will do so to their own demise.  I really and truly believe that.

However ...

I recently read Don Kates&#039; 1992 article &quot;Bigotry, Symbolism and Ideology in the Battle over Gun Control&quot;, available here:   http://homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn-firearms/Kates/bigotry.html

Kates sets the context for his paper with the following statement:

&quot;Of course, disarmament is not the only possible control scheme. Nor is it espoused by all gun-control proponents. ... But the anti-gun rhetoric remains the most important feature of the public debate over gun control. For it is the anti-gun rhetoric of so many gun control advocates that plays into the hands of their opponents. The gun lobby has proved effective in using that rhetoric to persuade gun owners that gun control is synonymous with &quot;disarmament,&quot; that this is what all proponents of gun control really have in mind when they propose any regulation, and that their agenda is inspired by the conviction that owning a gun is morally wrong.&quot;

So among what I feel will be gun control initiatives in a post-Heller USA are the following:  Registration schemes, licensing schemes, microstamping and projectile imprinting, and perhaps user-recognizing &quot;smart-gun&quot; technology.  Perhaps there will be more.  But right now, as Kates points out, the number of gun owners that resist ANY controls like these are HUGE.  We are motivated, because we are so familiar with what these folks want and are capable of if given half the chance.  Kates suggests that we no-compromise folks are a small minority among gun owners ... but that the rhetoric and tactics of anti-gun groups reinforce our (unreasonable) positions of &quot;not one inch, ever&quot; and &quot;from our cold, dead hands.&quot;

What the gun banners &quot;need&quot; to do is quiet us by truly taking &quot;gun bans&quot; and other such things off the table.  We&#039;ve seen this move post-Heller, with their statements that &quot;now that outright bans are off the table, the slippery slope is gone and we can all agree on reasonable restrictions.&quot;  We see it in Helmke and BHO when they argue that &quot;we don&#039;t want to ban guns or take them away&quot;, and &quot;we respect the tradition of the second amendment.&quot;

But even if they are successful, it might take a generation or more to regain that trust among gun owners ... to get people like us to truly trust that that they really, really don&#039;t want to &quot;take our guns away.&quot;  Can it happen?  Sure, it&#039;s possible, but they are a long way from that situation, and seemingly, getting further into their hole each passing year.

Sorry for the long post ...

I recommend you read Kates&#039; article on bigotry, ideology, and the gun control mentality.  It&#039;s pretty thought-provoking (and he writes very well).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sebastian says:  &#8220;&#8230;most sensible Democrats are now aware that this is a losing issue for them.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree.  Yet the few sensible ones that aren&#8217;t aware, and the senseless ones that have no hope of understanding the dynamic, will continue to push hard on gun control, using overblown and hysterical rhetoric like we see from Hamm.  And for the most part, they will do so to their own demise.  I really and truly believe that.</p>
<p>However &#8230;</p>
<p>I recently read Don Kates&#8217; 1992 article &#8220;Bigotry, Symbolism and Ideology in the Battle over Gun Control&#8221;, available here:   <a href="http://homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn-firearms/Kates/bigotry.html" rel="nofollow">http://homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn-firearms/Kates/bigotry.html</a></p>
<p>Kates sets the context for his paper with the following statement:</p>
<p>&#8220;Of course, disarmament is not the only possible control scheme. Nor is it espoused by all gun-control proponents. &#8230; But the anti-gun rhetoric remains the most important feature of the public debate over gun control. For it is the anti-gun rhetoric of so many gun control advocates that plays into the hands of their opponents. The gun lobby has proved effective in using that rhetoric to persuade gun owners that gun control is synonymous with &#8220;disarmament,&#8221; that this is what all proponents of gun control really have in mind when they propose any regulation, and that their agenda is inspired by the conviction that owning a gun is morally wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>So among what I feel will be gun control initiatives in a post-Heller USA are the following:  Registration schemes, licensing schemes, microstamping and projectile imprinting, and perhaps user-recognizing &#8220;smart-gun&#8221; technology.  Perhaps there will be more.  But right now, as Kates points out, the number of gun owners that resist ANY controls like these are HUGE.  We are motivated, because we are so familiar with what these folks want and are capable of if given half the chance.  Kates suggests that we no-compromise folks are a small minority among gun owners &#8230; but that the rhetoric and tactics of anti-gun groups reinforce our (unreasonable) positions of &#8220;not one inch, ever&#8221; and &#8220;from our cold, dead hands.&#8221;</p>
<p>What the gun banners &#8220;need&#8221; to do is quiet us by truly taking &#8220;gun bans&#8221; and other such things off the table.  We&#8217;ve seen this move post-Heller, with their statements that &#8220;now that outright bans are off the table, the slippery slope is gone and we can all agree on reasonable restrictions.&#8221;  We see it in Helmke and BHO when they argue that &#8220;we don&#8217;t want to ban guns or take them away&#8221;, and &#8220;we respect the tradition of the second amendment.&#8221;</p>
<p>But even if they are successful, it might take a generation or more to regain that trust among gun owners &#8230; to get people like us to truly trust that that they really, really don&#8217;t want to &#8220;take our guns away.&#8221;  Can it happen?  Sure, it&#8217;s possible, but they are a long way from that situation, and seemingly, getting further into their hole each passing year.</p>
<p>Sorry for the long post &#8230;</p>
<p>I recommend you read Kates&#8217; article on bigotry, ideology, and the gun control mentality.  It&#8217;s pretty thought-provoking (and he writes very well).</p>
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		<title>By: thirdpower</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/09/08/latest-hysterics/#comment-29508</link>
		<dc:creator>thirdpower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wow.  They&#039;re going to need some serious scrubbing bubble action to make those pants presentable in public again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  They&#8217;re going to need some serious scrubbing bubble action to make those pants presentable in public again.</p>
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