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	<title>Comments on: Para TTR AR-15</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/</link>
	<description>Firearms Policy and Politics in Pennsylvania</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:51:06 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Zintradi</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-35771</link>
		<dc:creator>Zintradi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 05:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-35771</guid>
		<description>Any word floating around as to when the retro fit kit will become available other than &#039;early 09&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any word floating around as to when the retro fit kit will become available other than &#8216;early 09&#8242;?</p>
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		<title>By: Olav</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-30034</link>
		<dc:creator>Olav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-30034</guid>
		<description>Since I live in CA. it could be a California law regarding the 26&quot; manual feed length vs. the 30&quot; auto  feed rifle over-all-length length.

Thanks for checking out my blog too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I live in CA. it could be a California law regarding the 26&#8243; manual feed length vs. the 30&#8243; auto  feed rifle over-all-length length.</p>
<p>Thanks for checking out my blog too!</p>
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		<title>By: Wild Deuce</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-30026</link>
		<dc:creator>Wild Deuce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 03:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-30026</guid>
		<description>I bookmarked your blog.

I floated this inquiry out at THR. I&#039;m getting some interesting feedback that includes this post:

*************
§ 921 Definitions.
(a) As used in this chapter—

(8) The term &quot;short-barreled rifle&quot; means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
*************

That&#039;s from the ATF:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

on Page 5, Lefthand Column, Sec 8

I didn&#039;t see a distinction between bolt action or semi-auto. I&#039;m sure the debate will rage at THR so I will check it out over the next two days. It&#039;s late and I am working tomorrow so I will let this one rest for now. Thanks for bringing this to my attention and again, great review.

BTW: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161748</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bookmarked your blog.</p>
<p>I floated this inquiry out at THR. I&#8217;m getting some interesting feedback that includes this post:</p>
<p>*************<br />
§ 921 Definitions.<br />
(a) As used in this chapter—</p>
<p>(8) The term &#8220;short-barreled rifle&#8221; means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.<br />
*************</p>
<p>That&#8217;s from the ATF:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf</a></p>
<p>on Page 5, Lefthand Column, Sec 8</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see a distinction between bolt action or semi-auto. I&#8217;m sure the debate will rage at THR so I will check it out over the next two days. It&#8217;s late and I am working tomorrow so I will let this one rest for now. Thanks for bringing this to my attention and again, great review.</p>
<p>BTW: <a href="http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161748" rel="nofollow">http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161748</a></p>
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		<title>By: Olav</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-30025</link>
		<dc:creator>Olav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-30025</guid>
		<description>Wild Deuce,

I think the min length of an operational firearm that shoots semi-auto has to be 30&quot; and the barrel has to be over 16&quot;.

If I had a folding buttstock on the zm can i still shoot it with the buttstock folded? If no, then it&#039;s legal. If I can then it&#039;s a NFA rifle.

I can have a 26&quot; over all length pump shotgun or bolt gun because it&#039;s not a semi-auto but the barrel has to be over 16&quot; still.

I think that&#039;s the rules.

BTW, thanks for checking out my bog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wild Deuce,</p>
<p>I think the min length of an operational firearm that shoots semi-auto has to be 30&#8243; and the barrel has to be over 16&#8243;.</p>
<p>If I had a folding buttstock on the zm can i still shoot it with the buttstock folded? If no, then it&#8217;s legal. If I can then it&#8217;s a NFA rifle.</p>
<p>I can have a 26&#8243; over all length pump shotgun or bolt gun because it&#8217;s not a semi-auto but the barrel has to be over 16&#8243; still.</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s the rules.</p>
<p>BTW, thanks for checking out my bog!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Wild Deuce</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-30018</link>
		<dc:creator>Wild Deuce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-30018</guid>
		<description>According to Para&#039;s website, the rifle would be legal by .25&quot; ... if the 26&quot; standard is applied without requiring the stock to be fully extended AND unfolded. That&#039;s cutting it close.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Para&#8217;s website, the rifle would be legal by .25&#8243; &#8230; if the 26&#8243; standard is applied without requiring the stock to be fully extended AND unfolded. That&#8217;s cutting it close.</p>
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		<title>By: Wild Deuce</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-30017</link>
		<dc:creator>Wild Deuce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-30017</guid>
		<description>I just checked your review Olav (excellent post and review btw). Here&#039;s my two cents and a very important inquiry.

I have the AXL variant with the stock that I purchased just before Aldo handed the operation off to Para. I must agree about the recoil/muzzle rise though I chose to have the SE Vortex installed. The Vortex is not much of a brake. It did not seem to run any cleaner than the standard AR design.

I also noticed that the recoil spring does seem a little more robust. I know it was new but I didn&#039;t recall the extra effort required to pull the charging handle in my other rifles. My observations were sort of confirmed when I had two consecutive slam fires ... explained here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4616852&amp;postcount=29 (read entire thread for full explanation/description ... also, I had not yet realized that this was still a DI system when I posted)

Ultimately I attributed the slamfires to the low bid lot of .223 Winchester White Box ammunition. The rifle functioned beatifully with all 5.56 NATO.

Anyway, about the rifle length. A quick Google search tells me that the rifle has to be a minimum of 26&quot; (as opposed to 30&quot;) when the permanently attached stock is fully extended AND unfolded. Do you have any links or further clarification on how you arrived at 30&quot;?? Please help ... anyone?

I was attempting to sell my complete kit (no lower and minus the mag) today for $1200 and my local shop wasn&#039;t interested in it. I&#039;ll have to look for a permanent length skeleton stock if this is really illegal to install with the folding stock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just checked your review Olav (excellent post and review btw). Here&#8217;s my two cents and a very important inquiry.</p>
<p>I have the AXL variant with the stock that I purchased just before Aldo handed the operation off to Para. I must agree about the recoil/muzzle rise though I chose to have the SE Vortex installed. The Vortex is not much of a brake. It did not seem to run any cleaner than the standard AR design.</p>
<p>I also noticed that the recoil spring does seem a little more robust. I know it was new but I didn&#8217;t recall the extra effort required to pull the charging handle in my other rifles. My observations were sort of confirmed when I had two consecutive slam fires &#8230; explained here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4616852&amp;postcount=29" rel="nofollow">http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4616852&amp;postcount=29</a> (read entire thread for full explanation/description &#8230; also, I had not yet realized that this was still a DI system when I posted)</p>
<p>Ultimately I attributed the slamfires to the low bid lot of .223 Winchester White Box ammunition. The rifle functioned beatifully with all 5.56 NATO.</p>
<p>Anyway, about the rifle length. A quick Google search tells me that the rifle has to be a minimum of 26&#8243; (as opposed to 30&#8243;) when the permanently attached stock is fully extended AND unfolded. Do you have any links or further clarification on how you arrived at 30&#8243;?? Please help &#8230; anyone?</p>
<p>I was attempting to sell my complete kit (no lower and minus the mag) today for $1200 and my local shop wasn&#8217;t interested in it. I&#8217;ll have to look for a permanent length skeleton stock if this is really illegal to install with the folding stock.</p>
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		<title>By: Olav</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-29228</link>
		<dc:creator>Olav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 02:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-29228</guid>
		<description>Sorry to post again but here is my review of the LR300 that became the Parra TTR

http://firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com/2008/09/z-m-weapons-lr300-becomes-parausa-ttr.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to post again but here is my review of the LR300 that became the Parra TTR</p>
<p><a href="http://firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com/2008/09/z-m-weapons-lr300-becomes-parausa-ttr.html" rel="nofollow">http://firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com/2008/09/z-m-weapons-lr300-becomes-parausa-ttr.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Olav</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-29172</link>
		<dc:creator>Olav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-29172</guid>
		<description>I have one of the Z-M Weapons LR300 NXL which is the same gun.

It&#039;s pretty nice, it&#039;s still DI but excess gas is vented out of the extended op rod.

I&#039;m using a muzzle break on mine and the barrel does not rise at all. It&#039;s not as accurate as my Noveske though as I can only get about 2 MOA out of it at various distances.

I paid about $1400.00 just for the upper with BUIS and no folding butt stock which costs $350.00!

I have the fixed length skeleton butt stock with was about $50.00.

Here&#039;s a pic of mine:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/olava1/ar15/ar15flowers.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one of the Z-M Weapons LR300 NXL which is the same gun.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pretty nice, it&#8217;s still DI but excess gas is vented out of the extended op rod.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m using a muzzle break on mine and the barrel does not rise at all. It&#8217;s not as accurate as my Noveske though as I can only get about 2 MOA out of it at various distances.</p>
<p>I paid about $1400.00 just for the upper with BUIS and no folding butt stock which costs $350.00!</p>
<p>I have the fixed length skeleton butt stock with was about $50.00.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a pic of mine:</p>
<p><a href="http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/olava1/ar15/ar15flowers.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc212/olava1/ar15/ar15flowers.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Para Ordnance TTR AR-15 &#124; the will to exist</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28850</link>
		<dc:creator>Para Ordnance TTR AR-15 &#124; the will to exist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28850</guid>
		<description>[...] More thoughts on the Para TTR AR-15 over at Snowflakes in Hell.       //   Spread this meme: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More thoughts on the Para TTR AR-15 over at Snowflakes in Hell.       //   Spread this meme: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28825</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28825</guid>
		<description>Ah, OK.  I think that was explained but I wasn&#039;t quite getting it.  When I think &quot;op-rod&quot; I&#039;m thinking of a piston unlocking the breech and moving the bolt carrier rearward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, OK.  I think that was explained but I wasn&#8217;t quite getting it.  When I think &#8220;op-rod&#8221; I&#8217;m thinking of a piston unlocking the breech and moving the bolt carrier rearward.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel E. Watters</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28824</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel E. Watters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28824</guid>
		<description>That is my understanding.  However, once the long carrier key and short gas tube break contact in the TTR, any excess gas will vent over the barrel/under the handguards.  This is in contrast to the standard gas tube which vents into the upper receiver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is my understanding.  However, once the long carrier key and short gas tube break contact in the TTR, any excess gas will vent over the barrel/under the handguards.  This is in contrast to the standard gas tube which vents into the upper receiver.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28820</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28820</guid>
		<description>Daniel: 

So you&#039;re saying that the gas is still blown back into the AR bolt carrier to unlock the breech?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel: </p>
<p>So you&#8217;re saying that the gas is still blown back into the AR bolt carrier to unlock the breech?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel E. Watters</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28802</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel E. Watters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28802</guid>
		<description>What most folks don&#039;t realize is that the TTR (and its parent, the ZM LR300) still use direct impingement.  The difference is that the TTR uses a much longer carrier key, mated to a shorter gas tube.  The recoil spring is mounted to the long carrier key where it protrudes from the upper receiver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What most folks don&#8217;t realize is that the TTR (and its parent, the ZM LR300) still use direct impingement.  The difference is that the TTR uses a much longer carrier key, mated to a shorter gas tube.  The recoil spring is mounted to the long carrier key where it protrudes from the upper receiver.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28786</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28786</guid>
		<description>Of course, it&#039;ll be cheaper still to buy just the Para upper, which is what I&#039;m waiting for.... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, it&#8217;ll be cheaper still to buy just the Para upper, which is what I&#8217;m waiting for&#8230;. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28767</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28767</guid>
		<description>Para said they aren&#039;t committed to an MSRP yet.  Currently they have it around 1900 bucks, but they want to get the cost down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Para said they aren&#8217;t committed to an MSRP yet.  Currently they have it around 1900 bucks, but they want to get the cost down.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Broadsword</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28742</link>
		<dc:creator>Broadsword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28742</guid>
		<description>Hello.  Thanks for posting the videos.  Seeing the correct hand positions will certainly improve our shooting skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello.  Thanks for posting the videos.  Seeing the correct hand positions will certainly improve our shooting skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Para Ordenance TTR AR-15 &#124; The Firearm Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28732</link>
		<dc:creator>Para Ordenance TTR AR-15 &#124; The Firearm Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28732</guid>
		<description>[...] Ordenance TTR AR-15 Snowflakes in Hell (who, long overdue, is now on my blogroll) has posted photos of the Para Ordenance TTR AR-15. The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ordenance TTR AR-15 Snowflakes in Hell (who, long overdue, is now on my blogroll) has posted photos of the Para Ordenance TTR AR-15. The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle &#187; Para Blogger Event Gun Porn</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28711</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle &#187; Para Blogger Event Gun Porn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28711</guid>
		<description>[...] The Para TTR AR-15. Sadly, my plane left early and I was unable to shoot their AR. Bummed. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Para TTR AR-15. Sadly, my plane left early and I was unable to shoot their AR. Bummed. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Oldsmoblogger</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28709</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldsmoblogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28709</guid>
		<description>MSRP?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MSRP?</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/08/24/para-ttr-ar-15/#comment-28708</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4847#comment-28708</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a rifle that I&#039;m sure Joe Biden would love to ban.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a rifle that I&#8217;m sure Joe Biden would love to ban.</p>
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