Comments on: The Suicide Angle

By: John Caile

John Caile — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:45:17 +0000

The “suicide prevention” ploy of the anti-gun fanatics is just that – it will have no affect on suicide. Their real agenda is, as always, attacking gun ownership, and this is just one more emotion-laden tactic to do so.

I did extensive research on suide in the ’80s and ’90s. It is amazingly complex. Rates vary wildly by culture, age, sex, etc. But one thing is clear: suicide is NOT a “spur-of-the-moment” phenomenon. It is the result of a downward spiral of depression. And their is NO causal correlation between suicide and gun ownership.

True, suicidal people use whatever method is available – why do you think so many people in the San Francisco Bay area kill themselves by jumping off bridges? Because they have lots of bridges. But no sane person would suggest that closing down all the bridges in the Bay Area would reduce suicide. Of course not – they’d just substitute a different method. This has been observed over and over again.

Bottom line? Heller or not, the “Usual Suspects” are still after your guns.

By: Big Boy

Big Boy — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:24:58 +0000

It’s OK to “control your own body” so long as you kill someone else (your unborn child) but it’s not OK to “control your own body” if you are old, and sick, and ready to go and you kill yourself alone.

I’m missing the logic here?

Maybe we need a Supreme Court case.

By: Brian in NJ

Brian in NJ — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:46:32 +0000

I think the way to discredit the anti gunners who cry suicide, is to show how phoney they actually are with regards to suicide prevention. Donated money should go to actual suicide prevention groups, not a anti gun group. People still will jump off a bridge, take poision, or use rope.

I don’t it would be too hard to do this.

By: Boyd

Boyd — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:16:30 +0000

Just thinking out loud, so to speak, I wonder if a comparison of the number of legally owned guns in the US to the number of gun suicides per year would eviscerate the argument?

By: Guns and suicide « Firearms & Freedom

Guns and suicide « Firearms & Freedom — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:16:30 +0000

[...] and suicide Sebastian addresses the sudden focus on suicide by the antis. I agree with him that this is probably a ploy for new supporters among people who [...]

By: Joe Huffman

Joe Huffman — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:08:49 +0000

My great uncle used a gun to kill himself. I don’t recall anyone who thought gun ownership was a factor. It was all about his health problems and untreated depression.

My hypothesis on the positive correlation between gun ownership and suicide is that it has to do with an attitude of self determination common to both rather than one of causation.

By: Sebastian

Sebastian — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:59:56 +0000

I would imagine they’ve been thinking about this since Parker won at the circuit court level, with plants to have a full tilt media campaign on suicide in the wake of Heller. My prediction is this gamble won’t work, but we’ll see. My experience with people who have had family members kill themselves is that it’s not talked about. When I was growing up, my neighbor’s son offed himself. He was experiencing the early stages of mental illness, and didn’t want to live like that. He took his father’s shotgun, and blew a crater in his chest with it. There was some talk (none of it focusing on controlling guns) about it, but it was something that very quickly was just brushed under the rug and not talked about.

Crime is something people are comfortable talking about publicly. Not so much suicide. I think that’s why they probably won’t get much traction with this. But I could be wrong.

By: Joe Huffman

Joe Huffman — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:54:51 +0000

There was a fairly well done study a few years ago that showed a slight positive correlation between successful suicides and gun ownership rates. It's the only thing they have any hope of hanging their hats on. Brady has this on their web site in regards to suicide. I think it has been there for quite a while. The VPC has been pushing the suicide angle for some time too. I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for but this is part of what seems to be a shift away from "crime prevention".

By: David, Chandler, AZ

David, Chandler, AZ — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:38 +0000

My father killed himself with a handgun. It was his fault, or maybe I should say the PTSS, not the gun's.

By: Kurt "45superman" Hofmann

Kurt "45superman" Hofmann — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:40:14 +0000

It doesn’t just bother me because the notion that suicides cause guns is absurd . . .

Is that how you intended to word that?

By: RedneckInNY

RedneckInNY — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:04:37 +0000

My aunt hung herself when I was 4, so for the longest time, my mom banned jump ropes from our home.

My brother was killed by a gun-wielding scum-sucking mutant waste of human flesh, when I was 13. I swore I’d never let myself be a victim. I’m guess I’m the exception to the rule.

By: Phoronus

Phoronus — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:49:09 +0000

I think you’re spot on. The family of those who’ve committed suicide are often nearly broken, feeling helpless and really adrift. If the anti-gun group comes along and says ‘Hey, it’s not your fault, it’s not even their fault, it’s the gun’s fault. If we fight against access to guns, no other family will have to go through what you’re going through’, that’s a powerful offer. It’s wrong, and illogical, of course, but people in the depths of grief are rarely logical.

By: SayUncle » Future of anti-gun arguments

SayUncle » Future of anti-gun arguments — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:48:13 +0000

[...] Recruiting people who have had loved ones commit suicide? [...]

By: Turk Turon

Turk Turon — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:42:02 +0000

The libertarian journalist Cathy Young wrote an article for (of all people!) Salon.com back in 2000, called, “When Liberals Lie About Guns”. It’s a quick riposte to the usual statistical factoids from Kellermann, Hemenway, etc. and it has a very effective couple of paragraphs on suicide.

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2000/03/13/guns/index.html

My read on the apparent shift to the suicide issue is marketing analysis. I think the Brady’s realized they were ignoring more than half of their potential “audience”, if you will. The case for guns facilitating suicide is even weaker than for homicide, but people who are grieving the loss of a loved one are not behaving logically, and could be a fertile new source of fundraising, at least the way the Bradys see it.