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	<title>Comments on: Disarmed for McCain</title>
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	<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/</link>
	<description>Where There's Snow, There's Firepower</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: countertop</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23692</link>
		<dc:creator>countertop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 00:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23692</guid>
		<description>Yes and no

That's certainly the option on the table for them, and what they indicate beforehand. If they would actually do it, well we will never know cause no politician good enough to get that far would be foolish enough to test those waters. 

Now, there have been situation (and I'm thinking of examples with ex presidents, and more directly their spouses) where those requests were made (well, requests for SS to bug off temporarily that were honored but then the risk to an ex presidents spouse in a small more controlled event is much different than in a huge auditorium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes and no</p>
<p>That&#8217;s certainly the option on the table for them, and what they indicate beforehand. If they would actually do it, well we will never know cause no politician good enough to get that far would be foolish enough to test those waters. </p>
<p>Now, there have been situation (and I&#8217;m thinking of examples with ex presidents, and more directly their spouses) where those requests were made (well, requests for SS to bug off temporarily that were honored but then the risk to an ex presidents spouse in a small more controlled event is much different than in a huge auditorium.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23682</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 22:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23682</guid>
		<description>So you're saying that, if McCain had put his foot down, the Secret Service would have walked?

And I do concede that it would have been a bad move for McCain to do so. The number of people that it matters to is too small to justify the risk, or the damage. [It also would be less than good for the Secret Service to withdraw protection from McCain. Not only would they be shredded politically (probably along with McCain), but there's a good chance that in about 9 months he'll be in a _very_ good position to make his displeasure felt. (Actually, as a Senator, he's already in a decent position to do that.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;re saying that, if McCain had put his foot down, the Secret Service would have walked?</p>
<p>And I do concede that it would have been a bad move for McCain to do so. The number of people that it matters to is too small to justify the risk, or the damage. [It also would be less than good for the Secret Service to withdraw protection from McCain. Not only would they be shredded politically (probably along with McCain), but there's a good chance that in about 9 months he'll be in a _very_ good position to make his displeasure felt. (Actually, as a Senator, he's already in a decent position to do that.]</p>
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		<title>By: David Codrea</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23671</link>
		<dc:creator>David Codrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 20:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23671</guid>
		<description>Countertop, why is it the entire focus of your argument is on the one point I specifically CEDED?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you just being as dishonest here as you were on your Olofson comments?

Good grief--and you call others "idiot kooks."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Countertop, why is it the entire focus of your argument is on the one point I specifically CEDED?</p>
<p>Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you just being as dishonest here as you were on your Olofson comments?</p>
<p>Good grief&#8211;and you call others &#8220;idiot kooks.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: countertop</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23668</link>
		<dc:creator>countertop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23668</guid>
		<description>And actually, I need to clarify.  As a matter of course they take over, but a candidate can request that coverage sooner or is always free to decline their protection up until election day.

That said, you either get it or you don't.  If you ask for protection, their mission is all encompassing and as a candidate you don't get to pick and choose, nor would anyone in their right mind see that as a prudent thing to do.  Especially when, as I pointed out, the only upside is to quiet a half dozen Internet commentators who aren't voting for you anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And actually, I need to clarify.  As a matter of course they take over, but a candidate can request that coverage sooner or is always free to decline their protection up until election day.</p>
<p>That said, you either get it or you don&#8217;t.  If you ask for protection, their mission is all encompassing and as a candidate you don&#8217;t get to pick and choose, nor would anyone in their right mind see that as a prudent thing to do.  Especially when, as I pointed out, the only upside is to quiet a half dozen Internet commentators who aren&#8217;t voting for you anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23658</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23658</guid>
		<description>It's title 18, Section 3056.  And no, the secret service will not arrest McCain, but once they are invited in, they are basically there unless McCain declines all protection from them.  Could McCain have waived them off legally?  Yes.  Would it have caused problems between McCain's campaign and the Secret Service?  Yes.  I didn't have a problem with McCain's security detail.  Sure, would have been nice to carry into the speech, but I was pretty shocked when the rumor hit you were going to be able to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s title 18, Section 3056.  And no, the secret service will not arrest McCain, but once they are invited in, they are basically there unless McCain declines all protection from them.  Could McCain have waived them off legally?  Yes.  Would it have caused problems between McCain&#8217;s campaign and the Secret Service?  Yes.  I didn&#8217;t have a problem with McCain&#8217;s security detail.  Sure, would have been nice to carry into the speech, but I was pretty shocked when the rumor hit you were going to be able to.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23657</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23657</guid>
		<description>Countertop,

You say that "By law, once you are X number of days out from election day Secret Service takes over your security. You have no choice in the matter." Which law? You merely assert that there is no choice. Please tell me where to find the text of this law, so I can understand the reason behind your assertion.

Your response does not answer my actual questions: what would the Secret Service have done? Physically restrained him from going? Arrested him? Is there a law that says he has to do what they say? If so, what is the penalty if he breaks it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Countertop,</p>
<p>You say that &#8220;By law, once you are X number of days out from election day Secret Service takes over your security. You have no choice in the matter.&#8221; Which law? You merely assert that there is no choice. Please tell me where to find the text of this law, so I can understand the reason behind your assertion.</p>
<p>Your response does not answer my actual questions: what would the Secret Service have done? Physically restrained him from going? Arrested him? Is there a law that says he has to do what they say? If so, what is the penalty if he breaks it?</p>
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		<title>By: countertop</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23643</link>
		<dc:creator>countertop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23643</guid>
		<description>Jake -

He's one of the two leading candidates.  By law, once you are X number of days out  from election day Secret Service takes over your security.  You have no choice in the matter.  

Now, whether they are there by operation of law or by McCains request right now, I don't know. But prior to their mandatory coverage, once he makes the request they are there with him.  

Could he have always rescind that request??  Well, i guess he could.  But then not only would he lose all protection until he was eligible to receive mandatory coverage (you don't contract with secret service and then second guess and fire them based upon your own independent risk analysis and then expect them to come back and work for you the next day) why would he?  

To try and win over 1/2 dozen idiot kooks on the internet who aren't voting for him anyway at the expense of making him look like a fool to 250 million Americans (not to mention insulting those who have sworn to protect his life)

Some days, I really wonder about people . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake -</p>
<p>He&#8217;s one of the two leading candidates.  By law, once you are X number of days out  from election day Secret Service takes over your security.  You have no choice in the matter.  </p>
<p>Now, whether they are there by operation of law or by McCains request right now, I don&#8217;t know. But prior to their mandatory coverage, once he makes the request they are there with him.  </p>
<p>Could he have always rescind that request??  Well, i guess he could.  But then not only would he lose all protection until he was eligible to receive mandatory coverage (you don&#8217;t contract with secret service and then second guess and fire them based upon your own independent risk analysis and then expect them to come back and work for you the next day) why would he?  </p>
<p>To try and win over 1/2 dozen idiot kooks on the internet who aren&#8217;t voting for him anyway at the expense of making him look like a fool to 250 million Americans (not to mention insulting those who have sworn to protect his life)</p>
<p>Some days, I really wonder about people . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23624</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23624</guid>
		<description>Correction to my last post: It should be addressed to countertop</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction to my last post: It should be addressed to countertop</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23622</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23622</guid>
		<description>Sebastian, you keep saying he had no choice, so I ask: If McCain had put his foot down and told the Secret Service "I am going, and I will not require them to be unarmed," what would the Secret Service have done? Physically restrained him from going? Arrested him? Is there a law that says he has to do what they say? If so, what is the penalty if he breaks it?

McCain may be a senator, and a presidential candidate, but he is still a citizen, and is free to go where he wants, when he wants, just like the rest of us. If he wanted to put his foot down, he could have.

Of course, given the remarks he made in his speech, he probably wanted to make very sure that nobody there had a gun handy so he didn't have to worry when he told them he would be perfectly willing to f#@k them over, and didn't really give a s#!t about the very rights they wanted him to support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sebastian, you keep saying he had no choice, so I ask: If McCain had put his foot down and told the Secret Service &#8220;I am going, and I will not require them to be unarmed,&#8221; what would the Secret Service have done? Physically restrained him from going? Arrested him? Is there a law that says he has to do what they say? If so, what is the penalty if he breaks it?</p>
<p>McCain may be a senator, and a presidential candidate, but he is still a citizen, and is free to go where he wants, when he wants, just like the rest of us. If he wanted to put his foot down, he could have.</p>
<p>Of course, given the remarks he made in his speech, he probably wanted to make very sure that nobody there had a gun handy so he didn&#8217;t have to worry when he told them he would be perfectly willing to f#@k them over, and didn&#8217;t really give a s#!t about the very rights they wanted him to support.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23611</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 20:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23611</guid>
		<description>Based on what I saw, small knives were OK.  Large blades, no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on what I saw, small knives were OK.  Large blades, no.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23610</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 19:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23610</guid>
		<description>Why were pocket knives seized?  

Is the SS jealous of the TSA?

Really, wasn't there always enough SS around McCain to deflect a pocket-knife attack?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why were pocket knives seized?  </p>
<p>Is the SS jealous of the TSA?</p>
<p>Really, wasn&#8217;t there always enough SS around McCain to deflect a pocket-knife attack?</p>
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		<title>By: countertop</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23597</link>
		<dc:creator>countertop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23597</guid>
		<description>Actually Sebastian,  he had no choice.  Once you accept Secret Service protection they control your security 100%.  ANything short of that - at least in the Secret Service's mind - fatally undermines the larger security envelope they create.  

Of course, they don't always require folks to be disarmed - partly it involves an assessment of risk and levels of advance general public knowledge.  For instance, Bush often times (well, on at least 3 or 4 times) attends baseball games in D.C.  Opening night, everyone gets screened.  But other times, when there is no advanced notice he's going to be there no one gets screened and he usually waits until the end - or right before he leaves - to let people know he's there.

Maybe its cause I'm in D.C., but I just don't have any problem with SS taking over control of all security for the individual in their protection.  If you don't want to see the president (or in this case a candidate - all of whom have death threats against them) then fine, stay in the press room.  But don't criticize the candidate because of something he has no control over (and 99.99999999% of people are going to think your nuts for complaining about)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Sebastian,  he had no choice.  Once you accept Secret Service protection they control your security 100%.  ANything short of that - at least in the Secret Service&#8217;s mind - fatally undermines the larger security envelope they create.  </p>
<p>Of course, they don&#8217;t always require folks to be disarmed - partly it involves an assessment of risk and levels of advance general public knowledge.  For instance, Bush often times (well, on at least 3 or 4 times) attends baseball games in D.C.  Opening night, everyone gets screened.  But other times, when there is no advanced notice he&#8217;s going to be there no one gets screened and he usually waits until the end - or right before he leaves - to let people know he&#8217;s there.</p>
<p>Maybe its cause I&#8217;m in D.C., but I just don&#8217;t have any problem with SS taking over control of all security for the individual in their protection.  If you don&#8217;t want to see the president (or in this case a candidate - all of whom have death threats against them) then fine, stay in the press room.  But don&#8217;t criticize the candidate because of something he has no control over (and 99.99999999% of people are going to think your nuts for complaining about)</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23589</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 13:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23589</guid>
		<description>McCain had a choice, but it probably would have caused problems between the campaign and the SS if he had called them off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McCain had a choice, but it probably would have caused problems between the campaign and the SS if he had called them off.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23587</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 13:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23587</guid>
		<description>The Gov of Ohio Ted Strickland (D) spoke at the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Picnic all of whom were carrying handguns.  The Gov was nice enough to pose for pictures:

http://www.emery-ellis.net/OFCC/displayimage.php?album=1&#38;pos=47

The Gov is the one in the pink shirt.  Made the comment in his speech "I'll bet this is the safest park in Ohio today"

McCain had no choice, but is nice to see that some government leaders protective details aren't afraid of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Gov of Ohio Ted Strickland (D) spoke at the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Picnic all of whom were carrying handguns.  The Gov was nice enough to pose for pictures:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.emery-ellis.net/OFCC/displayimage.php?album=1&amp;pos=47" rel="nofollow">http://www.emery-ellis.net/OFCC/displayimage.php?album=1&amp;pos=47</a></p>
<p>The Gov is the one in the pink shirt.  Made the comment in his speech &#8220;I&#8217;ll bet this is the safest park in Ohio today&#8221;</p>
<p>McCain had no choice, but is nice to see that some government leaders protective details aren&#8217;t afraid of the people.</p>
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		<title>By: ParatrooperJJ</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23586</link>
		<dc:creator>ParatrooperJJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 13:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23586</guid>
		<description>Actually anyone could have gotten in, tickets were not being checked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually anyone could have gotten in, tickets were not being checked.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahab</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23582</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 12:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23582</guid>
		<description>Yeah, anyone who has ever worked a protective detail or been the primary of a protective detail knows the score on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, anyone who has ever worked a protective detail or been the primary of a protective detail knows the score on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: countertop</title>
		<link>http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2008/05/20/disarmed-for-mccain/#comment-23575</link>
		<dc:creator>countertop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 03:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3499#comment-23575</guid>
		<description>McCain has no choice in the matter.  His life is 100% in Secret Services hands . . . they put their life on the line to protect his and for David to suggest he question their judgment and challenge their power to protect him. . . . .well, I think his grasp on reality speaks for itself</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McCain has no choice in the matter.  His life is 100% in Secret Services hands . . . they put their life on the line to protect his and for David to suggest he question their judgment and challenge their power to protect him. . . . .well, I think his grasp on reality speaks for itself</p>
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