Comments on: Crime Guns and Assault Weapons http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/ Firearms Policy and Politics in Pennsylvania Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:10:25 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sebastian http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14744 Sebastian Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:32:38 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14744 AR-15s will fire .223 just fine, and most shooters use that in their AR-15s. Chances are they used the shell casing, which means only one recovered rounds was a 5.56x45 NATO round. AR-15s will fire .223 just fine, and most shooters use that in their AR-15s. Chances are they used the shell casing, which means only one recovered rounds was a 5.56×45 NATO round.

]]> By: Harry Schell http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14743 Harry Schell Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:07:03 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14743 Interesting that the "black rifle" (AR15 and similar) firing 5.56mm could only muster one casualty over the 10 years. For such a vilified weapon, it sure seems ineffective. And 5.56 is the same as .223 Remington, which is fired in various bolt-rifles. So the one death may not be to an AR15/clone. The 7.62x39 is the AK 47 round. Almost no bolt actions use that round AFAIK. It is not that useful a round. Those deaths likely occurred due to AK47/clones use, and represent about 9.6% of total casualties over the 10 years. Interesting that the “black rifle” (AR15 and similar) firing 5.56mm could only muster one casualty over the 10 years. For such a vilified weapon, it sure seems ineffective. And 5.56 is the same as .223 Remington, which is fired in various bolt-rifles. So the one death may not be to an AR15/clone.

The 7.62×39 is the AK 47 round. Almost no bolt actions use that round AFAIK. It is not that useful a round. Those deaths likely occurred due to AK47/clones use, and represent about 9.6% of total casualties over the 10 years.

]]> By: Alcibiades McZombie http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14680 Alcibiades McZombie Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:01:12 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14680 As far as I can remember, high-speed 9 mm will penetrate low level vests. As far as I can remember, high-speed 9 mm will penetrate low level vests.

]]> By: Bigwolf http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14631 Bigwolf Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:31:59 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14631 I'm surprised that a 9mm penetrated body armor. Maybe the officer wasn't wearing it properly. But why are all rifle rounds are considered "armor piercing bullets?" With a little spin, any bullet seems special. Standard Name Alternate Name Jacketed Hollow Point Man Stopper Bullet Full Metal Jacket Armor-Piercing, Cop Killer Bullet I’m surprised that a 9mm penetrated body armor. Maybe the officer wasn’t wearing it properly. But why are all rifle rounds are considered “armor piercing bullets?” With a little spin, any bullet seems special.

Standard Name Alternate Name
Jacketed Hollow Point Man Stopper Bullet
Full Metal Jacket Armor-Piercing, Cop Killer Bullet

]]> By: Mell Bishop http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14628 Mell Bishop Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:54:56 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14628 Other info on officers KLD can be found @ http://odmp.org/year.php. Other info on officers KLD can be found @ http://odmp.org/year.php.

]]> By: Gunstar1 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14605 Gunstar1 Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:34:51 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14605 You missed Ted Kennedy's favorite chart. The dreaded armor piercing bullet deaths. Otherwise known as rifle amunition. 1 in 2005 - a 9mm handgun 1 in 2006 - a .30-06 rifle Table 39 http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2006/table39.html You missed Ted Kennedy’s favorite chart. The dreaded armor piercing bullet deaths. Otherwise known as rifle amunition.

1 in 2005 – a 9mm handgun
1 in 2006 – a .30-06 rifle

Table 39
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2006/table39.html

]]> By: Lyle http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14601 Lyle Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:58:25 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14601 I suppose of it's a weapon and someone uses it in comitting an assault, it's an "assault weapon". That's the great thing about meaningless terms-- they're completely flexible. I suppose of it’s a weapon and someone uses it in comitting an assault, it’s an “assault weapon”. That’s the great thing about meaningless terms– they’re completely flexible.

]]> By: Alcibiades McZombie http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14599 Alcibiades McZombie Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:25:06 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14599 I think New York used to count bolt action rifles as "assault weapons" if they had bayonets. I think New York used to count bolt action rifles as “assault weapons” if they had bayonets.

]]> By: Rabbit http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14598 Rabbit Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:23:52 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14598 I'm curious to see the statistics on how many died as a result of non-emergent medical or dental procedures. Ban medicine to save lives! Regards, Rabbit. I’m curious to see the statistics on how many died as a result of non-emergent medical or dental procedures.

Ban medicine to save lives!

Regards,
Rabbit.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14581 Sebastian Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:36:34 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14581 Read it. That's really nutty. So a Mauser is now an assault weapon? Read it. That’s really nutty. So a Mauser is now an assault weapon?

]]> By: Gringo_Malo http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14580 Gringo_Malo Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:11:58 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14580 Over on the <a href="http://carnabyfudge.blogspot.com/2007/11/truth-hurts-like-good-spanking.html" rel="nofollow">Carnaby Fudge</a> blog, poster BobG has reproduced a 1999 <i>Chicago Tribune</i> story about the shooting of a police officer with a "bolt-action assault rifle." Over on the Carnaby Fudge blog, poster BobG has reproduced a 1999 Chicago Tribune story about the shooting of a police officer with a “bolt-action assault rifle.”

]]> By: Rob K http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14577 Rob K Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:43:44 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14577 I'd also like to see the stats for how many officers shot with hand-guns would have died if they hadn't been wearing body armor. I’d also like to see the stats for how many officers shot with hand-guns would have died if they hadn’t been wearing body armor.

]]> By: illspirit http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14576 illspirit Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:22:13 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14576 But of the four killed with 7.62x 39 rounds, how many of those involved an SKS? But of the four killed with 7.62x 39 rounds, how many of those involved an SKS?

]]> By: SayUncle » Assault weapons in crimes http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14573 SayUncle » Assault weapons in crimes Fri, 09 Nov 2007 13:51:55 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14573 [...] I noted this report and Sebastian has expanded on it and had some fun with math. [...] [...] I noted this report and Sebastian has expanded on it and had some fun with math. [...]

]]> By: The Duck http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14568 The Duck Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:29:18 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14568 Well for details on Officers down: http://policespecial.com/inthelineofduty/All-Years-index/index-2006.htm Death by gunshot appears about equal to auto accidents, & 2-3 on avg per year are shot to death in training accidents. Well for details on Officers down:
http://policespecial.com/inthelineofduty/All-Years-index/index-2006.htm

Death by gunshot appears about equal to auto accidents, & 2-3 on avg per year are shot to death in training accidents.

]]> By: Jurjen S. http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14558 Jurjen S. Fri, 09 Nov 2007 01:09:10 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14558 I had the same thought regarding the .40 thing as Sebastian-PGP. Regarding the number of LEOs shot with "assault weapons," those stats probably include "assault pistols" like the TEC(-DC)-9, Cobray M11 et al. so that would include a number of pistol calibers (9mm Short, 9mm Para), though obviously not all killings using those calibers. It would kind of figure, too; I dug up an NIJ report a while back that said the overwhelming majority of "assault weapons" used in crimes prior to the 1994 AWB were "assault pistols." I'll see if I can find that again. I had the same thought regarding the .40 thing as Sebastian-PGP.

Regarding the number of LEOs shot with “assault weapons,” those stats probably include “assault pistols” like the TEC(-DC)-9, Cobray M11 et al. so that would include a number of pistol calibers (9mm Short, 9mm Para), though obviously not all killings using those calibers. It would kind of figure, too; I dug up an NIJ report a while back that said the overwhelming majority of “assault weapons” used in crimes prior to the 1994 AWB were “assault pistols.” I’ll see if I can find that again.

]]> By: Sebastian-PGP http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14550 Sebastian-PGP Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:52:14 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14550 RE: the .40--that's probably the most common LEO round these days, having displaced 9mm and .38 pretty well. More cops are killed by their own weapon than by rifles and shotguns put together (something like 25% of LEOs murdered, last I checked). So that's why the .40 seems overrated. .40 isn't any more likely to penetrate soft armour than 9mm, .357/.38, .45, etc. RE: the .40–that’s probably the most common LEO round these days, having displaced 9mm and .38 pretty well. More cops are killed by their own weapon than by rifles and shotguns put together (something like 25% of LEOs murdered, last I checked). So that’s why the .40 seems overrated.

.40 isn’t any more likely to penetrate soft armour than 9mm, .357/.38, .45, etc.

]]> By: PN NJ http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14549 PN NJ Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:45:23 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14549 Kaveman -- More LEOs are killed by traffic accidents than guns: http://www.nleomf.org/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm Sebastian -- In addition to your point about police body armor, it's also possible that anyone crazy enough to shoot a cop is more heavily armed than the average criminal. The average firepower of most criminals is probably lower and involves more handguns than any extrapolation based on the FBI LEO death stats. Kaveman –

More LEOs are killed by traffic accidents than guns:

http://www.nleomf.org/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm

Sebastian –

In addition to your point about police body armor, it’s also possible that anyone crazy enough to shoot a cop is more heavily armed than the average criminal. The average firepower of most criminals is probably lower and involves more handguns than any extrapolation based on the FBI LEO death stats.

]]> By: Linoge http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14545 Linoge Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:03:45 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14545 Of course the statistics do not bear out their claptrap. But the trick is to utter/write their screes with such emotion and passionate strength that people buy their words at face value, and never bother to do the research themselves. Such a heinous and obviously unsafe activity as doing your homework would cause all manner of problems for people like them... Of course the statistics do not bear out their claptrap. But the trick is to utter/write their screes with such emotion and passionate strength that people buy their words at face value, and never bother to do the research themselves.

Such a heinous and obviously unsafe activity as doing your homework would cause all manner of problems for people like them…

]]> By: kaveman http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14542 kaveman Thu, 08 Nov 2007 20:15:43 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14542 It would be nice to see a comparison table showing how many LEO's died in traffic accidents. It would be nice to see a comparison table showing how many LEO’s died in traffic accidents.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14541 Sebastian Thu, 08 Nov 2007 20:03:51 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14541 Probably not. Unless they are making up that statistics out of thin air, which is certainly possible :) But there isn't any stats collected about magazines in crime. It was just something that sounded good to legislators and GFWs. Probably not. Unless they are making up that statistics out of thin air, which is certainly possible :) But there isn’t any stats collected about magazines in crime. It was just something that sounded good to legislators and GFWs.

]]> By: Justin Buist http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2007/11/08/crime-guns-and-assault-weapons/#comment-14540 Justin Buist Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:59:49 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1884#comment-14540 Don't forget that the Brady Bunch is likely including any pistol that can accept a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds in their definition of assault weapons. That might be how they get that 20% figure. Don’t forget that the Brady Bunch is likely including any pistol that can accept a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds in their definition of assault weapons. That might be how they get that 20% figure.

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