Snowflakes in Hell

I’m going to write to the state police public information person about the non-resident reciprocity issue and see what kind of response I get. I’ll post the actual letter as an update a bit later. Unfortunately, the PSP make it rather difficult to contact them by e-mail, so old fashioned snail mail will have to do.

UPDATE: Here’s what I plan to send:

I am writing to obtain some clarification from the Pennsylvania State Police in regards to the attached letter from the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s office on whether the Pennsylvania State Police recognize out-of-state licenses to carry firearms by people who do not reside in the states with which we have an agreement.  For instance whether a resident of Ohio, in possession of a valid license to carry firearms from The State of New Hampshire, would be able to lawfully carry a firearm in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

I represent a blog, with approximately fifteen thousand visits a month, that covers issues of concern to Pennsylvanians involved in the shooting sports and gun rights communities.  One of my readers brought this issue to my attention, and we would certainly appreciate any clarification the Pennsylvania State Police can offer, in regards to State Police policy, and officer training, on the issue of reciprocity agreements with other states for carrying firearms.

We’ll see how they respond.

From the Pennsylvania State Police Web Site:

Other information included under “Firearm Reciprocity” is a list of states that allow any out of state resident with a valid concealed weapons permit from their home state to carry a weapon while in those respective states. These states usually require the individual to have the actual permit and a photo ID on their person while carrying the weapon.  Note that unless Pennsylvania has a reciprocity agreement with a state, regardless of whether or not their home state recognizes our license/permit, the residents of that state MAY NOT carry a firearm while in Pennsylvania unless they have a current and valid Pennsylvania License to Carry or fall under the exceptions as listed in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6106(2)(b).

Emphasis mine.  This would indicate that they view only resident licenses as being valid.   This would be an incorrect view.  I may try to get some clarification from the State Police themselves.  Any law enforcement who holds this view would be gravely in error.

I think there’s been little court play for reciprocity agreements in Pennsylvania.  This letter from the Attorney General’s office would indicate that some law enforcement in the state, including the Pennsylvania State Police, is challenging the notion that people can carry on out-of-state non-resident permits.  The AG’s office is merely saying here that the decision to prosecute is left to the discretion of the local district attorney.

The letter specifically mentions New Hampshire.   Here is our agreement with New Hampshire.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will recognize valid New Hampshire permits to carry concealed firearms by valid permit holders while said permit holders are present in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

This agreement is authorized under the Uniform Firearms Act.    §6109.3k:

(k) Reciprocity.–The Attorney General may enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of each state’s license to carry a firearm.

Given the wording in these agreements, it would seem to me there can be no reasonable reading that would exclude non-resident license holders from other states.   Now, that said, the police are still free to arrest you, and the District Attorney is still free to prosecute you, because government officials can be assholes.   But I wouldn’t let that stop you from carrying.

More later…

via SayUncle and OhioCCW

Two of our community have been taken down for the count. http://thebitchgirls.us and http://www.countertopchronicles.com are both offline currently because Bitter was trying to do some housekeeping by deleting some old databases and it seemed to scrozzle every blog she had registered.

UPDATE: I suddenly realized how she could fix the problem.  Looks like they are both in the process of coming back up.  There are certainly advantages to doing your own hosting, but Bitter’s blog can’t be taken down by a power outage :)

I submitted my renewal for my LTC. Should be here in about 10 days they said. Bucks County seems to have slightly different procedures than Chester County. For one, they take your picture for you. They wouldn’t take my passport photos from Eckerd. I wish I had known that before I paid for them. For two, it’s local county government clerks that process the application rather than the sheriff’s deputies.

Pennsylvania requires photocopies of any out of state licenses. I think this is mostly for people who are applying from out of state, but it seemed to thoroughly confuse the person processing my application. I have licenses from Florida, New Hampshire, and Washington. I photocopied both front and back, but Washington has nothing on the back, so it wasn’t clear to the person what was going on.

Because they only accept cash, I asked for a reciept, which seemed to put off the clerk, who explained to me that they have to account for the money regardless. Hello! You people are the government! The minute I say “OK, I’ll trust these people. They seem honest and competent.” is the minute I end up on the phone saying “No, I submitted that application to you a month ago, and paid forty six dollars. What do you mean you have no record of it?”  Of course, the LTC is only supposed to cost 19 dollars, but most of the sheriff’s figured out people would pay extra for credit card sized licenses rather than the large pieces of papers spelled out by state law.  I don’t have a problem with this.

I don’t know, on one hand, it’s nice that I didn’t have to go to Doylestown to submit an application. On the other hand, the Sheriff’s deputies in Chester County took my application, said “Looks good to me, if all goes well you should have your LTC in a few weeks.” and that was that. It arrived in the mail a few days later. Once my application is approved here, I have to pick it up. Another trip.

Not sure which I prefer.